Back to Uncle Jimbo

Mr. Galloway Comes to Madison

UJ: Mr. Galloway how do you reconcile your call for pulling troops out of Iraq with your
warning that a civil war would be the most dangerous thing that could happen?

If we do pull out, then the Sunnis would be in danger from both the Kurdish militia and
the Shia militia, would that not be justified given their history of oppression to those other
two groups?

GG: Well that's a very simplistic analysis of recent Iraqi history but as I saw from your
body language before you spoke, so you didn't surprise me. The case I am making is
that the presence of the occupation parties is what is fueling the drive toward civil war. I
deliberately chose my words carefully, I said  that the withdrawal of the occupation
armies is not a sufficient condition, but it is a necessary one in other words I'm not saying
there will be no chaos or bloodshed if the occupation forces withdraw, but I am saying
there will always be chaos and bloodshed until the occupying forces are withdrawn. We
have to withdraw because we are not the solution we are the central problem and then
the Iraqis will have to work out their future for themselves and I have very great
confidence in their being able to do so.

GG: Yes, I'll let you in again my friend

UJ: I just wanted, (laughter) about the terrorists and the swamps. Now Bin Laden, I've
read him and I know you have, he's got complaints against the Saudi Government and
others going back to the 1200s I mean you know, the idea that granted there were
policies of the West that exacerbated that but his basic complaint dates back well beyond
anything we ever did and I'm just curious does that bear anything more than that the
Bush companies, at one point, made some money. You know he's got the Caliphate in
mind, restoring the Caliphate and from there potentially expanding it outward, that's a
much more ancient claim.

GG: Sure, I have a feeling you're misunderstanding me a bit, I'm beginning to get the
impression that you're an honest man, I hope I'm not wrong. I think you're beginning, I
think you're in danger of misunderstanding me. I'm not speaking for Bin Laden, I 'm not
asking us to negotiate with Bin Laden. I'm asking us to negotiate with those who haven't
joined him yet, those who might join him tomorrow, those who are among the hundreds of
millions of angry Muslims in the world, angry about our policies who are drawn toward this
man that I called in the House of Commons four days after 9/11this medieval, obscurantist
savage. They are drawn to him because we are watering that swamp of hatred. Now I'm
not saying you can reason with Bin Laden. I hate Bin Laden, the difference is I always
hated Bin Laden. I hated him when the US and British governments were giving him guns
and money and support. I was one of those who hated him, let me quote myself again if
you'll allow me. I said to Mrs. Thatcher on the night before Kabul fell to Bin Laden and the
Taliban and the rest. You have opened the gates for the barbarians and a long, dark
night will now descend upon the people of Afghanistan. Was I wrong? Does anybody now
think I was wrong? So my point is not that Bin Laden has a manifesto that is negotiable. If
Bin Laden was here I'd kill him myself. My point is that Bin Ladenism is drawing it's
strength from that swamp of hatred, and that swamp of hatred is what has to be drained
by our policy. now I'm in danger of giving my speech twice so I believe we'll wrap it up
here with your permission, unless someone has a pressing question.

UJ: Unless you wanted to address the issue of disco dancing with Tariq Aziz.

GG: Really, well we could do that if you like.

UJ: Would you like to take this opportunity to deny it?


GG: If I'd ever, If I'd ever been to a disco with Tariq Aziz that might be a fair question, but
you're reading too many of those neo-con websites

Ebo: Disco dancing with Tariq Aziz eh?

UJ: Oh yeah, it's verifiable, I think there's video.

UJ: (prior to clip was asking if his words to Mrs. Thatcher were related to his sadness
that his team lost in Afghanistan, and how our support for the mujahideen was global
chess against the Soviets, due to the policy of Realpolitik)  ...and us playing
Realpolitik. We supported them

GG: I've never loved the Soviet Union. You're believing all the..

UJ: Really, because I thought there was a quote that you were sad when the Soviet
Union died, I mean I do fact check a little

GG: Everything that's written is a quote (laughter) so it's true, for goodness sakes,

Ebo: Must be true

GG: No what I said was, the collapse of the Soviet Union leaving a single superpower
in the world, with no equilibrium in the world is the reason that the world is in the
chaotic state that it is in today. That when there were more than one, there were limits
to what people could do.

UJ: Absolutely


UJ: What if the Sunnis vote yes, is that a good thing or a bad thing?

GG: They're not going to vote yes

UJ: You don't think so? Some of the clerics, I have intel friends and they say some of
the clerics are holding their tongues, because you don't want to get shot.


GG: We'll see

UJ: Thanks a lot

Ebo: Have a good time tonight, thank you.